wouldn't hurt. >> i wore a high. >> thank you, ann cowler and jill sodobson bye-bye. peers. >> these are troubled times. we need to hear them. some one unincumbered by politics as usual. someone who could kill a moose with one hand and skin a bear with the other. someone without a job. >> sarah palin weighing in on the healthcare reform conversation. >> yes! like a ship slowly appears over the horizon to an island of castaways. sarah palin has arrived with fresh new clothing and that little box she keeps next to her bed filled with crazy. >> the america i know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with down

syndrome would have to stand in front of obama death panel so the bureaucrats can decide if it's worthy of healthcare. a system is downright evil. >> geraldo: you're speaking out to the plan to kill the baby. >> geraldo: the late night comics are having a ball with the healthcare debate. which is driven some say by my colleagues in cable news. >> wanted to get up right now and go to the window. open it and stick your head out and yell, "i'm as mad as hell and i'm not going to take this anymore!" >> my name is randy from montana. that i believe our constitution and it's a very important thing. i also get my news from the cable networks, because i don't like the spin that comes from the other places. >> you have to be careful about the cable networks, though. okay. go ahead. go on with the question. >> geraldo: as people vent, washington squirms, and town hall meetings erupt in

impassioned debate. this is a fox news alert. >> the notion that somehow i ran for public office or member of congress are in so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma. i mean, when you start making arguments like that, that simply dishonest. >> geraldo: the midst of sometimes wild rhetoric, spreading anxiety and apparently widespread discontent, the president is continuing his now deeply personal push to get people behind his crusade to change the nation's healthcare system. and following up on tuesday's granite state stop in new hampshire and friday's big town hall meeting in the big sky state of montana, after visiting old faithful and a day of fly fishing, tonight he was in grand junction, colorado, where he faced another generally friendly crowd eliciting cheers from the audience a couple hours

ago when he took a shot at the group he thinks is leading the opposition to his healthcare reform. >> i have don't want government bureaucrats meddling in your healthcare. i don't want insurance bureaucrats meddling in your healthcare either. >> geraldo: the president has gone on to phoenix, arizona, and criticized those he said was trying to scare people saying -- >> because for all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary is if we don't do anything. we will continue to see 14,000 mirns lose their health insurance every day. >> geraldo: all right. he says because of all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary is if we do nothing. mike emanuel is travelling with the president and filed this report in colorado. >> reporter: geraldo, the healthcare reform effort has taken on a lot of qualities of a presidential campaign. president obama traveled with his family to grand junction, colorado, to do a rare saturday town hall after sightseeing with his family

in montana. he is also calling on supporters to spread the word similar to him being on the stump. mr. obama loses a tie, takes off the jacket and rolls off his sleeve. a lot of lines sound like a campaign speech. the white house clearly recognizes opposition to healthcare reform is clear. and having an impact on the national debate. he took several questions from people concerned about what a public option will do to private insurance companies. the president addressed the concern that healthcare reform will mean the government will decide when to pull the plug on the elderly. but this time mr. obama made it personal and showed some emotion. >> first of all, when you make a comment like that, i just lost my grandmother last year. i know what it's like to watch somebody you love who is aging deteriorate. and have to struggle with that. so, the notion that somehow i

ran for public office or members of congress are in this so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma, i mean when you start making arguments like that, that's simply dishonest. >> reporter: mr. obama acknowledged there is no perfect option, no silver bullet when it comes to healthcare reform. geraldo? >> geraldo: thanks. granted the round-the-clock cable news coverage can create an echo chamber to make dissatisfaction seem angryier and more widespread than they are, there is a possibility, i believe, that the current debate could become the biggest political development since reagan democrats and jerry fallwell silent majority. coming up in the second half hour, two of the best in the business, an coulter on your left, kiersten towers on the left go live with a spirited

debate. coming up, you meet the hero shopkeeper forced to shoot two creeps dead after they tried to rob his harlem store at gun point. and pistol whipped one of his employees. in the meantime, is this healthcare debate really just about doctors, drugs and socialized medicine? we all have the justifiable fear that bigger government will lead to more waste, fraud and abuse, as it almost always does. but there is also the unavoidable fact that healthcare reform requires the haves in our country who are mostly white to pay more for the care of the have-nots who are mostly black and latino. is there a racial sub text to what is happening here? while we don't know exactly who is behind it the f.b.i. confirms this week that it is investigating the spray painted swastika on the sign for democratic congressman david scott, suburban atlanta office. the gross act of vandalism coming ten days after the congressman was confronted by angry protesters at a town

hall debate. >> those of you who are here who have taken and came and hijacked this event that we are dealing with here, this is not a healthcare event. you've made the choice to come here. not a single one of you had the decency to call my office and set up for a meeting. okay? then do that. do that. >> geraldo: has race become the secret undertone of the healthcare debate? congressman david scott joins me live from atlanta. congressman welcome. after welcoming you, and i'm delighted to have you on the program, i have to say i'm just as sickened by the swastika that somebody, some right wing lunatic painted on your office. as i was back in 2002 when some left wing nut portrayed then president bush as a nazi. i hate when people use the imagery regardless of whether they're on one extreme or the

other. but do you believe congressman, that the anger you're seeing is from fringe crazies or is this something deeper? s>> basically, it is that one individual. but there are other single individuals, but it doesn't speak for the goodness of america. what speaks for the goodness of america occurred in november of last year. when for the first time america elected an african-american as president of the united states. it would not have happened if 43% of the all of the white people who voted, voted for barack obama. that is the america we stand for. >> do you believe as you sit there today barack obama would still command 43% of the white vote? >> i'm not sure. >> you have to look at the context of which things are

happening. the nation is going through extraordinary political possess. the process that made this country great. give and take of a democracy is never neat and pretty but gets the end result after the end where people expect the verdict, because they had the punches that go in t the ring. >> matt: let me stop you again. do you believe again after the blows are exchanged, do you believe that president obama as the facts sit right now has a chance, a good chance of pass i passing health reform or do you believe that the hiyperbole of the debate made reform impossible? >> no, i do not. i believe it made it a richer experience. i was one of those who worked very hard. i talked to the president to slow the entity down. as you mobile know or may not know i'm a member of the blue dog coalition. the only member of congress who is a member of the blue dog coalition, the black caucus and the new dem. >> geraldo: you're black and

blue. i made myself laugh. >> black and blue and new. >> geraldo: in more ways than one. >> black and blue awe new. the point i want to make is simply this. we are in a great position now. to bring the country together. the swastika is there and racial hatred is there. that's within the system we do. but we can put it aside and move forward. make no mistake. the town hall meetings are important to come out and express their pollution. >> matt: let me bring in the other side. fair and balanced from the republican side of the aisle, joining the congressman and i, congresswoman who held five of her own town hall meetings, marcia blackburn joins us from nashville, tennessee. congresswoman, welcome. do you represent nashville? >> good to see you. >> matt: where are you exactly? >> i have everything from memphis to nashville to

clarksville. i held three town hal meetings last week and yesterday i had one where we had 1300 people. today i held five town hall meetings. >> matt: busy. >> in the rural part of my district. i have been very busy. >> geraldo: i was visiting the 101st airborneairborne. >> they love having you there. >> geraldo: i just asked congressman scott but do you believe after the all is said and done that he believe reform will be pass aed. do you think it's probable that healthcare reform will happen? >> the bthe bill before the hou right now 3400 will not be passed by the house. there is so much opposition to that legislation and to some of the co components contained in that. what is great is people are reading the bill and coming

the town hall meeting and asking questions about specific portions of the bill. i think that is a positive. i do think that most people agree we need to have reform. that addresses liability reform. >> matt: -- >> geraldo: how about rich people paying for poor people. will it fly? >> you know, people don't even look at the debate on healthcare that way. they look it it as a philosophical debate whether you want patient-centered free market reforms or whether you want a government-centric program. i think that rather than a partisan debate right now that what we are hearing more of is a philosophical debate. that is where people in my town hall meeting that have been showing up in droves, that basically is how they approach it. i have individuals that will say, you know, i'm a democrat or blue dog, and i oppose the

bill. let me tell you why. then they go on and articulate the specific reasons that they oppose this type of healthcare. >> geraldo: let me tell you i think too much of the debate is being fueled on the one hand by the big pharmaceutical companies, allied with the tort lawyers and other hand by insurance companies. and their allied. i think their lobbyists are helping spread a lot of vitryial here that -- vit vit y vitryial. let me take a break. we'll continue with you and congressman scott in a moment. coming up, you will meet the lady who lowered the boom on pennsylvania senator arlen spector. later, the hero/shopkeeper in harlem, new york, who stood his ground in a deadly showdown after this. ( car door closes ) ooooch! hot seat!

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i'm a republican and first and foremost a conservative. i don't believe it's just about tax care. it's not about tarp. this is not about left and right. this is the is systemic family of this country. i'm only 35 years old. you have awakened a sleeping giant. we are tired of this. this is where everyone in this room is so pissed off. i have don't want the country turning into russia. >> i don't want this country turning into russia. you katie's comments were picked up and relayed around the country last week as she called senator arlen spector on the carpet with the statement that for all of us obvious flourish and exaggeration nevertheless sums up the generalized fear many has that president obama and the democratic allies are moving our nation toward socialism. katie joins me now from state college, p.a. katie, thanks. i said flourish and exaggeration, but was it? do you believe that the

democrats are moving the country thwart russia, becoming russia? >> you know what? i can't say that it's just the democrats. what i said in the quote it's not left to right. it's all of them. in my mind at least. this is going on for years and years. this is going on before barack obama has taken office. this started back with teddy roosevelt. he was the first one to introduce nationalized healthcare. it's all of them. >> geraldo: how has your life be effected negatively since the obama presidency? do you make more than $300,000? i don't know. tell me how you're affected. excuse me for asking that personal question. >> it doesn't matter how much my family makes. this has hit home with us. i've been asked why all of a sudden now are you interested? with the wars going on i've been paying attention but it

doesn't affect me personally at home. when cash for clunkers started, it bugged me. when they start to talk about healthcare that is something that affect me my neighbors and my family. i don't want the government interfering in that. >> matt: you think government will tell you what doctor to go to and how much care you will receive? >> i don't know. but i know it's a possibility. you have seen other governments doing it, why couldn't it happen here. >> matt: let me take a break. you stand by and i want the congress people, i'll go back to them also to stand by. i must also say i'm joined by bo deedal here. there are vicious language going on out there. does it represent a real security threat to our elected officials and others? right back. >> i review 3200 best i could. to me, it's obviously written with the assumption that government has the right to control our lives from free birth to death. for that reason, it's not worth considering. it's not worth modifying.

not worth amending. it needs to become -- [ cheering ] >> leigh us alone. that's all we would ask. leave us alone.

>> welcome back live. we're continuing our discussion and debate over the president's healthcare proposal. back to congresswoman blackburn from nashville. congresswoman, do you oppose nationalized healthcare? isn't medicare and medicare in essence socialized medicine? >> i do oppose having a nationalized system and having the public option in

competition with private op. we've seen it in tennessee with with a program called penn care, the test case for public option healthcare put in place in 1994. it caused budget problems in the state. led to turmoil. we have a governor working to straighten it out, democrat governor who has put effort in the program. we all know and as katy said well, she articulated well the start of medicaid, medicare put in place. we have to remember with medicare our seniors prepaid that. that money has been coming out of their paycheck, government has first right of refusal on the paycheck. they do the withholding first. >> matt: true -- >> geraldo: that is true if you make money. but let me give congressman scott the last word, i allude to the violence of some of the rhetoric.

do you fear for your personal safety? the you believe it could get out of hand? >> no, i don't. we have excellent protectiprote. we moved forward with that. we can't get distracted. that's what they want. they put the swastika there to distract. we have can't let the swastika win if it distracts us. we need to move forward, as the republican colleague said, i think she is very much on target. we want to have a bipartisan bill. a bipartisan effort. so that is one of the reasons why i advocates to take a look and consider medical liability and tort reform for example. >> matt: we definitely need tort reform. >> geraldo: let me ask a question. bo deedle is here. do who believe people -- well, any congress person who takes a position considered violently at odds with some of the people who can be nutty, do you believe that there is a heightened

risk for president himself? >> the problem now, again, the incident is a great tool but it's something dangerous. they have the pyschopath skinheads and anti-everything -- >> geraldo: militia people. >> they have their own website and streaming video of meetings and what tay do every week. they gather people in their houses that all of a sudden think, they rile them up. anything can happen, geraldo. i have done my own investigation. some of the people can really go off the deep end. they're walking and they have no job. unemployed. they have a gun. they have a gun at home. the big thing here is i think really what really diffused a lot of things today was obama. by obama talking about it. we're not passing a bill in 48 hours the way they did with the other bill. right now, we have a dialogue. we do tort reform and we need these things. if anything obama -- everybody says bo, you're not a big obama fan. today he said it. it will take a long time.

we have dialogue where republicans and democrats, a big job. that is what america should realize. >> matt: we don't want to pull the plug on granma. comeman and come woman, katy, you should run for office. we'll be right back. hero shoppe keeper is next. >> it's not about healthcare. loaded words, the words like un-american socials and that you used, it's a codework, the new "n" word basically. most for headaches. for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body...

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we owe it to them. to learn more, call... or visit woundedwarriorproject.org. >> coulter. >> 6 people were rushed to the hospital. many of them in critical condition. many were stampeded as they tried to escape the burning tent. the cause is not known, all of the victims are women and children because in accordance to tradition, the men were attending aspirated party. just two months out of prison, quarterback, michael vick, practicing on saturday with the eagles.

the team criticized by animal rights activists for signing the quarterback. vick agreed to a one-year deal with the eagles thursday and he served 18 months in prison and was reinstated last month by the nfl. we held back to geraldo at large.off. >> i have fallen and i can't get up. >> sorry, ma'am. can't help you. obama doesn't want us to. socialism! >> geraldo: it's funny, but there is a political point to make that the rhetoric has gone so far overboard. i talk more about sarah palin and death panel when ann and kirsten come on minutes away to debate healthcare. first, this is an at large alert. hero's regret. the shopkeeper who shot four

people trying to rob his store on thursday, killing two of them told craig how he wishes he had another way out of the dilemma they put him in. here is fred. >> geraldo, bitter-sweet move at the home of charles augusto. the harlem store owner who survived the robbery attempt. charles, how are you feeling about what happened? >> bad. sick. i can't eat. all i think about is the mother and father and the kids. >> augusto says he had no choice when he blasted four young men who burst into the restaurant supply company thursday afternoon. >> i told them i didn't have any money. put your money away and go home. it won't call the police and i won't do anything. they thought about it and it didn't work. got more violent and hurt my guy worse. >> he says he bought his 12-gauge shotgun 20 years ago

after four armed men burst in his store robbing him and terrorizing his staff. >> it was an old shotgun in the corner for 20 years. didn't know if it was going to work but i had to do something. >> for 20 years you thought about the moment when you were robbed and victimize and laid there helpless and thought it wouldn't happen again. >> i didn't want it to happen again. especially if they would hurt us. >> he almost had one of the would-be robbers convinced there was nothing worth taking. >> screaming there isn't money and the other guy screaming saying where is the money. they beating up on him. >> pulled the shotgun under his desk where it sat 20 years firing three times. >> i fired on him. i hurt a couple. i feel lousy about that.

>> one perp fell through the doorway and died outside. another one mortally wounded and the police followed the blood trail to third suspect and apprehended the fourth. >> what is the reaction in the neighborhood. what has the reaction been to you. >> good. >> the police say he won't be charged in the shooting. >> what are your reaction for the family osthedown men? >> i feel bad about them. mothers and fathers. i had a son who died 13 years ago, 33 years old from self-inflicted gunshot wound because he was in trouble with the police. i know what it feels like and i know what the people are going through. it's not easy. it bothers you forever. i didn't have a choice. the kids didn't give me a choice. >> matt: i spoke to gus on

the phone and told him he was afraid he'd be sued by some of the families. i said if you get sued i'd personally raise money for your defense. sometimes violence is justifiable. his life is at risk. so is the employees. >> this happened 20 years ago. he's been in the neighborhood for 50 years. he feels more comfortable in harlem. that's his home. >> when i worked in harlem for a lot of years there were people who work here. white people with business there for 40, 50 years. they got along with everyone. one reason he did what he did, when they beat up the kid that worked there 19 years and all i could say is no one would take a person's life. but if he didn't react, they could have pulled the gun away and we would have had this gentleman dead. that would be been a different story.

>> geraldo: this is the argument against the shooting. for most people inexperience as gus is, he got lucky. >> he got lucky, but the whole thing is really people when these things happen it's not an easy thing youto do. you jeopardize your life when you commit a robbery, it ain't that easy for everyone. >> geraldo: yeah. all right. well, we wish gus the best. our condolences to the parents, you know, of the young men. the parents had nothing to do with this. a tragic situation. gus did what he had to do. now back to the healthcare debate. most americans are too young to remember that this healthcare issue is something that we have been struggling over for a very long time. >> the fact of the matt every is that we are now -- matter is we are now talking about doing what most of the countries of europe did years ago. >> matt: even before the great medicare and medicaid debate in the 1960s, this has bob the ideological issue that defines the political party. democrats in favor,

republicans, including the great communicator again. >> the american people, if you put socialized medicine and gave them a chance to choose, would unhesitatingly vote against it. >> clinton made healthcare reform their priority following the upset victory in 1992. >> we need a system where it's affordable for you to take care of your family, affordable for you to guard against the inevidentable. accident or whatever might occur in your life in some unpredictable way. that way if everybody is in the country is insured nobody picks uppen an unfair share of the healthcare cost. >> geraldo: the failure of clinton reform almost killed the democrats, hepping sweep the g.o.p. back into power. >> i'm absolutely opposed to the national healthcare plan. i don't want the federal government making decisions for consumers or for providers. i trust people. i don't trust the federal government. >> geraldo: is that the heart of the matter? when even the future president distrusts the

federal government? who can you trust? >> president obama has been explaining the healthcare plan now to senior citizens. yesterday at a town hall meeting he promised a crowd he will not, "pull the plug on grandma." then there was an awkward moment when grandpa stood up and booed. >> geraldo: if you think they're funny, listen to these guys. >> a lot of things floating around. i heard even maybe a tax somehow on soda. >> 86% of the small businesses would not have to pay this 8% tax that is being proposed. >> i'm not sure but i think what the president is saying 500,000 per individual, $1 million for a couple. >> that really takes about 86% of the small businesses in this country. >> actually, we don't get a surcharge there until you are over $500,000. so your first $100,000 -- >> it's not about the details at this point. it's really about the big

picture. >> understand there is no bill right now for or against. >> geraldo: got that? before you think the whole thing is a joke, remember this. >> everybody understands we can't keep doing what we're doing. it's bankrupting families. i get letters every single day from people who worked hard and don't have health insurance. it's bankrupting businesses who are frustrated that they can't provide the same kind of insurance they used to provide for their employees. bankrupting our government. >> yesterday, i spoke to a principle architect of the revolution in the 1990s, revolution that humbled the democrat the last time they tried to reform the healthcare system. here is newt gingrich and me debating death panels. mr. speaker, welcome. let me start if i may with a personal anecdote. i lost my father-in-law, my wife and i lost her dad howard about a year ago to prostate cancer. i remember a conversation i had with howard in the last days of his life in which he told me, he said i've decided

to let nature take its course. he was in hospice care. he was at the very end. we had done every heroic measure you could think of. that was a thursday or friday and he was dead early the next week. to think that that end of life decision which is made after counseling would not be reimbursed because of fear that it would lead to some kind of death panel, where the old folks would be, you know, their care would be bettered away -- bartered away, that is assertist, alarmist, overstatement of what the death pan panepanels, so inappropriate i criticize sarah palin for bringing it up. what say you? >> the difference is senator isaacson pointed out because he had a provision in the senate bill that pays for the consultation between the doctor and the patient. but it does not establish any kind of government guidelines. i think it's very important the draw a distinction.

i favor every american having an opportunity to have a conversation with their doctor in which is totally private where the doctor has no pressure of any kind. but i would be deeply opposed to turning the power to rationing care or define the circumstances -- >> wait a second, mr. speaker. who is speaking of rationing care? where in any of the bills does it say that care for the elderly will be rationed? isn't it exactly the kind of rhetoric that scares people and leads to these emotional, you know, displays at the town hall meetings? >> you and i just disagree. first, when you start moving toward government run system, they set up a five person medicare panel to decide what is appropriate. they set up comparative to the fact that research which congressman obey, chairman of the appropriation committee said would be translated directly to what could be prescribed and what couldn't be prescribed. you have the president describing whether you take a

blue or to red pill. >> geraldo: wait, you said the president of the united states was prescribing whether to take a blue pill or red pill. that's a flourish? >> that was his words. in one of his speeches, he got off on a riff about expensive versus inexpensive medicine. i happen to think it's a decision you and your doctor ought to make, not the government. i think that it's dubious to me to try to say you have 1,000 page bill. in one version of the house, you have three versions in the house. two versions in the senate. one of which has not been written yet. you have all the things floating around. when amendments have been offered to say no rationing, the amendments were defeated. the democrats voted against putting a no rationing provision in. i talk -- >> geraldo: is it possible to have a bipartisan bill, mr. speaker? >> sure. but you have to have two things. no government plan. and no rationing. if you put in a provision

that there could be no rationing decision by the government and put in a provision that there would be no government plan, you'd have the base for bipartisan bill. >> geraldo: mr. speaker, thank you. interesting. >> thank you. >> geraldo: all right. as promised, when we come back, the long awaited ann coulter/kiersten powers so guess what. again, when i least expected it, my asthma symptoms came back. so this time, my doctor gave me symbicort to help control my asthma. it combines two medicines that help control inflammation and constriction. so i'm breathing more freely day and night, and that feels good to me. and symbicort is an asthma controller that starts to open my airways within 15 minutes. very unexpected. symbicort will not replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. and should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol may increase the chance of asthma-related death. so, it is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on other asthma medicines. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. i know symbicort won't replace a rescue inhaler.

it helps control my asthma and starts to open my airways within 15 minutes. ask your doctor if symbicort is right for you. (announcer) if you cannot afford your prescription, astrazeneca may be able to help. you know all the little things you do to help the environment? here's one more... ziploc evolve. ♪ an ultra-light bag designed to keep food fresh... made with 25% less plastic. and made with wind energy. ♪ new ziploc evolve. better for the environment. still ziploc fresh. all at no extra cost. designed with you in mind. s.c. johnson. a family company.

one of the reasons that people are so to hysterical at the healthcare town hall meetings and they've been stirred up like they have, that he have no chance to beat healthcare this time unless they mortify with the rigged fears from moderate and conservative democrats. why do they know that? they don't have a filibuster this time. >> geraldo: ann coulter what say you? he says only by mortifying people, scaring people can

the republican succeed defeating healthcare. >> the democrats never do that. global warming and the earth will end tomorrow. beginning of the show you said the swastika was painted on david scott sign by right winger. every swastika case in the last decade i can think of was a left winger trying to bring attention to the problem of hate crime in america. the one that bill clinton mentioned involving two military guys painted it on their own door. the woman in illinois, clairmont professor -- >> geraldo: like morton downey did it to himself. >> i'm not as familiar with him as you. are you're my tabloid reporter. moreover -- >> geraldo: do you believe there are death panels -- >> i do. >> geraldo: you believe there are death panels? >> they don't call them death panels as ronald reagan didn't call high frontier star wars, newt gingrich didn't call the contract with america the contract on america.

but your claim to newt gingrich that it's absurdist to say having a doctor, reimbursing a doctor to have the death discussions, no, it's absurd to say doctors find it so burdensome to have the conversation that if the government does not offer the money -- they want money for procedures, for tests, x-rays. why is the government offering money -- >> geraldo: do you think the doctors would stop counseling patients in mortal peril of losing their lives? >> no, the suggestion being made from obama and your side is that doctors, oh, this is such a burden having to tell patients about end-of-life. they don't have to be erim bursed for that, it's a conversation. they're reimbursed for x-rays. why is the government doing this? moreover, why can't we deal with what the problems are. obama says the problem is 14,000 people lose health insurance every day? why? government intervention. let us buy health insurance across state line. >> geraldo: kirsten, right now, the bill or the proposal has not been defeated, it's glenn beck, ann coulter ten,

obama two. it's the bottom of the eighth inning. >> that's true, but that's because they continue to say things that aren't true. the reality is -- >> geraldo: opponents? >> it's alreadibe it's already in medicare. the so-called death pabls already exist. informs the medicare bill. republicans voted for it. interestingly it was a republican drafted this. this is not actually some radical left wing thing. this so to make sure when you're dying you make the decisions not the hospital or the insurance company. that's -- >> geraldo: what about the ineffectivest in of the democrats -- >> wait. what about where is the outcry about the insurance company death panels who are constantly denying people care. >> geraldo: true. >> when they reach their limit and let them die. >> that's why we want competition. that's why we want to buy whatever health insurance we can get from a free market. as opposed to have the state tell us. medicare doesn't cover -- >> geraldo:wait. >> if medicare is so great why don't we have health

insurance for everyone who doesn't have marriage counseling and addictive disease treatment. >> look, there can be a rational, reasonable discussion about this with different ideological differences. death panel stuff is a lie. just a lie. > >>

let me talk about small businesses. i don't know the particular situation whether you're providing health insurance to your employees. if you are, then you stand to benefit from this plan, because every proposal in the house and senate that's been put forward provides a huge number of subsidiaries to to small business owners that are doing the right thing by their employees. >> geraldo: i say a couple of things. number one, the president is a dollar short and day late. he should have been talking

about the issues weeks ago. instead of letting some of the lame and very unpopular democratic leaders trying to carry his water. and secondly i want to be very, very clear about this. i think sarah palin's remarks is irresponsible and crazy. so crazy i think that it remind me of governor rick perry in texas talking about texas seceding from the union because he was unhappy with the federal government direction. very clear on that. but -- >> i second that. i second that. >> but kirsten, in terms of the president's popularity, gallop and fox news both have him still in 55 to 53. but ramussen has him at 48%. isn't it a fact this issue is a gift to republicans and democrats are being whittled down as a result of it? >> it a is a gift. it was inevitable he'd have low approval rating. like how did ever have high approval rating with the situation we're in. high unemployment, people are

scared, a huge deficit. not really a recipe for high approval ratings. totally mishandled the healthcare issue. just like immigration all over again. completely under estimated how the right was going to react. there is a lot more energy on the right than this. i mean where are the democrats? why aren't they going to republican town meetings and saying this imperative, we have to have this? why is it that the republicans that are the ones turning out and complaining -- >> i tell you what. ann can respond to it. i think that the democratic activists are exhausted by the election. they're bored with the whole internet thing. now they don't care because most of the kids who are the activists have health insurance. >> you're both misconceiving what is happening here. >> disabuse us of -- >> a lot of republicans proposed equally heinous ideas. this isn't republican democrats. this is the american people. i'm talking now. we have a few minutes over here. the republican -- elected republican officials are

johnny come latelies to this. it's not just republicans showing up at the town halls. it tends to be a lot of old people who tend to be democrats. this is the great wise wisdom of the american people and nothing to do with how you pitch the debate. people don't want a government takeover of healthcare. >> geraldo: are you done? >> that's good. >> geraldo: again, exercise my prerogative to change the topic. look at kirsten's left hand. flash it there. flash it. she became engaged. she got engaged to a doctor. >> surgeon. >> how does he feel about healthcare? >> he sees it the way we do. >> okay. >> at least there won't be the whole carville -- >> healthcare reform. >> geraldo: a moment in time, kids have been trying to recreate ever since 40 years ago. woodstock, music and artsfest call, defined a generation i wasn't there. my old cnbc producer was there and he had his original intact ticket, intact until

he lent it to me ten years ago for a show and tell. watch. >> the executive producer of this broadcast, bob fasbender, get a shot of that. was actually there. they say all the people claiming to have been -- oops. oh, god. [ laughter [ laughter ] >> all those years. all those years. >> kirsten, congratulations. thank you both for joining us. obviously fox news will continue our excellent coverage of the debate over the issue. that's it. until tomorrow. thank you for watching. see you then. see you tomorrow.

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